Kick backs collusion in wedding industry!!!

[2sdae]

Kickbacks and Collusion in the Wedding Industry.......
It's a subject that not many people know about, and that isn't talked about often enough!. If you, as a bride, are going to be denied / strongly encouraged against having the wedding you really want, you have the right to know what the true motivation is - money.
I was watching 27 Dresses with a friend recently - nurturing my mega crush on James Marsden, of course - when he said the line about collusion among wedding cake bakers. Of course, I got a friendly prod when he said that, but it really got me to thinking.
While I'm not aware of any collusion amongst local cake bakers, many brides are subjected to the effects of collusion in the wedding industry. It's a bit of a hush-hush subject - and I know I'm going to take heat for this article - but some things really need to be said.
Hrm. So much to say.. where to start?
Let me go back to when I was getting married. My then-fiancé and I found the most absolutely ideal venue for our needs. Our friends were going to LOVE it! The tasting was great, etc.. the only food part left to deal with was our cake. This was before I ever thought I'd be a cake baker myself some day.
The venue had a semi exclusive deal with a particular baker. Of course, like many venues, we were free to bring in cake from any (licensed) baker we wanted.. but if we went with anyone but their choice of baker (a completely separate company), we would have to pay a hefty fee.
I was the complete opposite of a bridezilla, and had NO desire to shop around for cake. The way I was thinking, the place had to be pretty good if they were exclusive, right? My fiancé and I agreed that unless they totally sucked, we'd be going with them. I've mentioned the totally sketchy behavior that happened at our tasting in a previous post... that's what led to use exploring our options.
So, we found a baker that we loved. Their cake was about a million times better than the one that was "exclusive" to the venue. No exaggeration. However, the previously-ridiculous and recently-raised cutting fee at my venue almost doubled the cost of that other baker, and we decided to give and go with the numbers. That was the second biggest mistake from our whole wedding (first being the photographer). The cake was the wrong color, ugly, looked thrown together, and tasted freezer burnt. I really wish we'd gone with the other baker.
Flash forward to now. Now I do this for a living. Those bad experiences with my own wedding cake have had a huge impact on how I do business - no freezing cakes, going out of my way to be completely open and honest with brides, striving to OVER deliver for everything, etc.
Now, the same practice that ended up with me having an ugly wedding cake in my photos also affects my business - and your ability to choose, as a bride.
From all accounts I've ever heard, that same bakery that screwed up my wedding cake has built their entire business on kickbacks. The brides that are strong armed into using that bakery aren't being shoved in that direction because the place is "so good", they're being pushed in that way because the bakery pays for that.
I've been doing a lot of reading on trade law recently, as the whole arrangement smells to me. Kickbacks, fees levied against everyone but this baker.. It's collusion. It's definitely anti-competitive behavior, and it definitely flies in the face of a free market. Kickbacks alone are pretty illegal in many industries, why it's apparently not here.. I'll never know.
In a free market, bakers set their own prices, and brides choose who do use.. sometimes based on these prices. I've yet to read anything that suggests that venues and caterers affecting the price of bakers in such a way - to render them MUCH more expensive than their "favored" baker - is in any way "free market" friendly.
The wedding industry has long been known as seedy. Many people work against this stereotype. There are many great businesses out there who do NOT take advantage of brides, and I am always quick to refer such people. This whole blog entry .. This is the reason that I am pretty vocal about being anti-kickback. Not only do I not PAY kickbacks, I refuse to accept any - even just "thank yous". When I recommend a particular business to a bride, it's because that business is AWESOME. I haven't been paid a cent to say it, nor will I. When someone recommends me, it's because they truly enjoy the product and service I offer - they haven't - and won't - receive money for saying so. Both sides of this are very important to me.
Now, I'd like to sound off on my opinion about cutting fees. I'm sort of two-sided on this one.
In SOME cases, I see it as acceptable, even if I don't agree with the terminology. If a caterer or venue makes their OWN cakes, and loses business when one of their clients hires someone else.. I can sort of understand that as being reasonable. I don't agree with the term "cutting fee" at all - if you were to actually charge for whatever costs are incurred with cutting a cake, it would be monumentally smaller than the fees that are labeled as such.
In other cases, it's a money grab at best, and anti-competitive at worst.
In the case of "Money Grab".. Many caterers charge service fees on TOP of the meal charge. That meal is already surcharged like crazy - you'd never pay the same amount for the same meal in a restaurant. One would think that, in the case of a restaurant meal, you're paying for service in that cost. For the more expensive wedding meal.. Well, you're paying for extra service.. Or better uniforms maybe? Definitely not getting a volume discount on it either.. So why get hit with exorbitant "service fees" on top of that? At the venue I used, it was 18% of the food bill. EEK!
With all of that padding on price for "service".. You've pretty much bought their time for the night. I don't see cutting the cake as being something that should be charged on top of all those other service charges. If they don't even make cake, they're not losing business by you bringing one in, and for those kind of prices - they should be at your beck and call all evening!
UNLESS, of course.. You bringing in a cake means that they are losing a kickback payment. Then, the cake cutting fee is their way to compensate themselves for that lost money - at YOUR expense. Even if you don't pay the fee, and go with their baker because of price, you're still paying - you're paying with your right to choose.
Wow, this is getting long! It's a subject I'm passionate about though. Because I'm not one to complain without proposing a solution, here are three items I'd like to mention.
1. Negotiate! A savvy bride is an informed bride. If your venue is imposing fees unfairly - ESPECIALLY if those fees don't apply to another bakery - Negotiate! Look into collusion, anti-competitive practices, and question your caterer about the legality of it all. Ask WHY they're willing to "work for free" for that other bakery, if they need to charge to serve a different cake. When you hire a venue/caterer for your wedding, you are paying them a LOT of money. They can ABSOLUTELY waive that cutting fee for you!
2. The unfair practices like I've been talking about here were a big part of the reason we decided to adopt a referral program. I was a bit worried about doing so at first - it's not really a kickback, but it is "getting something for a referral". However, after many emails from brides complaining about cutting fees, we adopted this as a way around it. Earning enough referral credits in cake can offset the cost of those fees, if you aren't able to negotiate out of them. Besides, if you're looking to earn referrals to our cakes, it means you love them anyway and don't NEED to be paid to recommend us!
3. If this subject riles you up as much as it does for me, you can always explore it on your own. If you're a bride - past, present, or future - who has been subjected to practices like this, get ahold of your state Attorney General's office. Make some noise!
Getting off my soapbox now!

[cakebaker]

I had read this piece yesterday on the author's blog.

Celebration Generation Cakes - Absolutely Hardcore Sugar Art in the Twin Cities, St Cloud, and beyond!

I have to say, I don't agree with a lot of her views.

I really don't think this is an extremely common practice, I've never run into it here at all.

At any rate, I don't like the idea of it, but as long as brides caves into such practices, it will continue. Even the author of this piece accepted the practice for her own wedding...don't do it and then complain about it. The power to change this is with the bride and her pocketbook.

I totally disagree with her opinion on cutting fees. A venue that makes cakes is completely within their rights to require that if you use their site, you use their cake and food. It's no different than when we as bakers won't allow the bride to bring in Wal Mart cakes to supplement a small wedding cake we made.

I also disagree with her complaints about service fees:

Many caterers charge service fees on TOP of the meal charge. That meal is already surcharged like crazy - you'd never pay the same amount for the same meal in a restaurant.

No, you wouldn't, but that's with you going to their dining establishment and using THEIR facility to eat in. A caterer brings the food to YOU. Call your local high end restaurant and ask them what it will cost to have them come to your home and cook your meal for you. I can guarantee you it will be more than the menu price. Her argument doesn't hold water.

The biggest problem I have with this article is that she knocks every aspect of the business from caterers to venues then turns around and admits she does the same thing....she just gave it another name...referrals.

Anytime you offer incentives for people to bring you business, there will be those who only do it for the money, not because they like the service or product. So what? It happens all the time, everyday...just look at the commercials by celebrities on television. But to have a "referral program", then complain about kickbacks seems a little hypocritical to me. Read her comments against bakers who don't offer fondant and you'll see what I mean about hypocritical comments.

At any rate, I'm not sure she's accomplishing much except to insure she's alienating even further her associates in the industry in the area she lives in. That can be a tough row to hoe.

[2sdae]

I reposted this to just open people's eyes as to what can and does happen.
I find this a problem here where I am.

As far as brides accepting this, most do not understand that they can, not accept this. Most are getting married for the 1st time and thus have little or no experience in this area.
So I feel they are being mislead by many venues, caterers and decorators too!
I posted it as a heads up and a thought provoker for people to see and really check into your area and what's going on.

Referrals because you like the product, service or the baker/decorator is 1 thing. But to just recommend someone because they paid you to is wrong. And deceptive to a bride who may not understand it is that, a referral for money, not because they really believe items/products are worth it and a good deal.

Deff food for thought if you are in this business.
I didn't post her myspace blog for her privacy and because if you dont have a myspace you cant view her blogs.

Anyhoo, hope it has at least titillated some of you to look around and find out how things in your area really work.

edited to ad: I didn't realize at first she had this posted on her website blog also!!!!! OH WELL!

[cakebaker]

She posted this publicly so it's not an invasion of her privacy at all. In fact, she wants people to read it and has said so publicly on another forum.

As I said, this person offers a referral service herself. She's no better than anyone else who offers compensation for referring customers. I just think it's a real case of the pot calling the kettle black. I also don't care for her knocking unlicensed bakers nor do I care for her slamming decorators who work in buttercream. From her blog:

Some bakers don’t want to invest the money (commercially available fondant is expensive, and could eat into their profit margin), some don’t want to invest the time (buttercream designed cakes take far less time to produce!), and some are just really old school and don’t adapt well to changing trends. You’ll recognize them by the use of plastic bridesmaids, LOL.

I won't even get into how silly the argument is that buttercream takes less time to produce or that using fondant cuts into profits (if it does, you don't know how to price your product)..but after a rather heated discussion on another forum about the lack of talent and abilities of those of us who offer sheet cakes, I'm a little tired of being taken to task for the style of cakes I choose to do. Some decorators just need to concentrate on their own abilities rather than knocking someone else.

Off my soapbox....

[2sdae]

Originally Posted by cakebaker

She posted this publicly so it's not an invasion of her privacy at all. In fact, she wants people to read it and has said so publicly on another forum.

I realized that and edited to add I didn't know she had it on her website blog too.
I saw it from her myspace.
I too am not a fan of knocking other bakers styles or choice of cakes. I believe you do what your customers want. Period.
And excepting cash kickbacks when you are referring someone only because of that money is wrong. Period.
Receiving a referral from someone who has ordered from you and recommends you due to their experience with you isn't wrong. If they get a discount for sending you business for that, well I think that's just a + to the referrer, not a kickback. So it's not, in my opinion, the pot calling the kettle black.
And anyone who says sheet cakes are easy or plain and or take less talent are sadly mistaken.

[Amanda]

I tend to think of unethical doctors and drug companies when I hear the word "kickback", but giving someone a discount because they referred someone else to you and a kickback are by definition the same thing. It's just that the word "kickback" seems a little more scandalous.
I think the issue here is not privacy, or hypocrisy, or what kind of decorating is better or worse. To me, the issue is that this lady isn't very nice. Why be so rude about other bakers talents? What makes her so great? Decorating is an art, and no one type of decorating is better than another. THIS is my soapbox issue...but I'll spare you all.
Who cares what other bakers do? She's in the game, so what's her issue? I guarantee that if she were the one receiving all the "kickbacks" she wouldn't be complaining! I know I wouldn't!
You can't play the game and then complain because the rules don't make it easy for you to win. Maybe it is a little underhanded or skewed. The wedding industry is a big scam and those of us who have been married for a while can see it plain as day. That's capitalism, baby! If you are going to make your living as a decorator and baker you have to get into the scam and play the game for all it's worth. Whether you like it or not, that's how it is. So, you can spend your time complaining on your blog, or spend your time practicing so that you can blow your competition out of the water. That's how I see it anyway....

[cakebaker]

I see it as a distinction without a difference...

If you get some form of compensation for making a referral, then you can call it a tomato if you want to, but you're getting paid to make the referral. A rose by any other name....

The referral program here is an excellent example I think. You get paid to send people here to shop. I don't think it's unethical to do that and my guess is anyone who is in that program is doing it strictly because they get paid to do so.

The unethical part comes in if you make referrals to sub-par businesses, and that's wrong whether you get "paid" in cash, cake or chickens.

[2sdae]

AGREED!

[missnnaction]

Originally Posted by cakebaker

She posted this publicly so it's not an invasion of her privacy at all. In fact, she wants people to read it and has said so publicly on another forum.

As I said, this person offers a referral service herself. She's no better than anyone else who offers compensation for referring customers. I just think it's a real case of the pot calling the kettle black. I also don't care for her knocking unlicensed bakers nor do I care for her slamming decorators who work in buttercream. From her blog:

I won't even get into how silly the argument is that buttercream takes less time to produce or that using fondant cuts into profits (if it does, you don't know how to price your product)..but after a rather heated discussion on another forum about the lack of talent and abilities of those of us who offer sheet cakes, I'm a little tired of being taken to task for the style of cakes I choose to do. Some decorators just need to concentrate on their own abilities rather than knocking someone else.

Off my soapbox....

Where on her site is this quote from.. because from what I read... she makes mmf. So she isn't investing any money in fondant. I had a hard time reading her site.. I felt like she is a bit cocky without merit.. But, maybe it's just confidence.. I'm not sure.. I happen to agree with you all. Just my 2 cents..


never mind... I found it...